Talk:Joycean Writers

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  • While Joyce is a favorite author of mine, I do not consider myself "largely inspired" by him. His influence, a different matter than "inspiration," is probably inescapable for anyone writing prose fiction in English today, even those who've never read a sentence of Dubliners, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, and Ulysses. A cursory reading of Journey to the End of the Fashion Club and Where's Mary Sue shows that L.F. Céline and William Gaddis respectively were obvious insprirations for those works—to say nothing of the Daria fan author posing as "Sandi Griffin" for the former, and C.E. Forman for the latter. Hence my removing my name from this list. —ScissorsMacGillicutty 12:20, 27 May 2007 (EDT)
  • Furthermore, the "themes" listed are, with the exception of "sexual themes as omnious and threatening," not themes per se, but stylistic characteristics. It's also questionable whether they are common in Joyce or Gregor Samsa's writing.
    • "Tendency to narrate little action by using many words" certainly does not apply to Dubliners or Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. I'd say where it occurs in Ulysses it's a function of one of Joyce's appropriations of a pre-existing prose style (e.g., The Oxen of the Sun chapter) or creations of a new style appropriate to the material (e.g., Sirens chapter, where the narration is meant to imitate countrapunctal music). In the case of Gregor Samsa's fan fiction, that much of it is script fic makes this characterization highly questionable.
    • "Purposeful genreswitching, or genrebending" Ulysses certainly does this, but I can't think of a single fic by Gregor Samsa that switches genres mid-stream, unless you count The Waste La(w)nd, and that's questionable because it follows the shifts in Eliot's "The Waste Land."
    • "Excessive use of stream of consciousness technique" Again, Ulysses certainly does this, but the only Dariafics by Gregor Samsa with this characteristic are his crossovers with Ulysses and The Sound and the Fury. ("The Sound and the QB")

In sum, I think this whole category needs to be rethought. It might be more illuminating (and inclusive) to consider Dariafic authors who allude to canonical authors, but then the list becomes quite long. —ScissorsMacGillicutty 13:35, 27 May 2007 (EDT)

I added this category only because I noticed that the three of us use Joyce as an inspiration quite deliberately and often. If Gregor Samsa isn't happy with it either I might delete it. Some of the clauses apply to my own writing, however; Tiffany's chapter in "Group Four" is pure stream of consciousness, and my novel is a blatant attempt to emulate Ulysses. I added the disclaimer exactly because not all clauses apply to all of Joyce's work and/or to all of the writers on the list and/or to all of their work.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "Where's Mary Sue When You Need Her?", at least partly, about diversion from the subject, and is a bit of a "quest novel" that takes place during one day (or close), the same way Ulysses is structured? Starmeshelion

I recall Gregor Samsa saying in chat that he did not want to be labeled as a "Joycean Lord." --Quiverwing 16:18, 27 May 2007 (EDT)
"Where's Mary Sue" takes place within a day for the narrator and author of "Fodder Figure," (chapter 7, aka "Once at Lawndale") but several days for Daria, et al., so it's not equivalent to the single day time frame of Ulysses. The real title of Chapter 7, "Once at Lawndale" and the theme of parental betrayal come from William Gaddis' A Frolic of His Own, right down to Jake saying that he's been lied to all his life (to say nothing of the explicit quotes from the novel in that chapter).

That's why I wrote "Joycean Writers", as I didn't want to offend anyone. If Gregor Samsa isn't happy with the entry, I will delete it.

--Starmeshelion 16:24, 27 May 2007 (EDT)